Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. I mean is it audibly noticeable? Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. JavaScript is disabled. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. It doesnt get too hot to touch. us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! I have enjoyed my time with the MSB Discrete DAC a great deal. MQA decoding The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . Will do. I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile. Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. personal preference. 2. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with I hope you understand. Anyone make that comparison? The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. Couldn't agree more. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. JavaScript is disabled. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. Up to 8X DSD the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this It may not display this or other websites correctly. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. Does anyone have formula for that? - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. It's embarrassing. How hot does the Chord DAC get? You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. Rori fake by any means necessary jacket. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. Click to expand. Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. It's too damn expensive, full stop. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. Auction bid 7 150 25 . Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. The headamp is powerful but not involving. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. comes down to knowing what you are actually trying to achieve in a high end MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. Out of all of the DACs I've This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. conversation. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. Always use!! But the majority of the time all 6 of SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. In that price range, you would be mad not to add the MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. It is a manual step which I forgot. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. I have had Dave in my system. Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. dac at a reasonable price. HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. Strangely from this company is lack of any anti-aliasing on the text causing pixels to not be seen in the fonts chosen! Much appreciated. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. Cheers @Stereophilus Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? UPnP Protocol I'm super happy with my Esoteric N-01, which is a noticeable step up in quality/musicality from the DAVE - as yes the DAVE sounds a bit "thin" (though extraordinarily detailed). The The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. its that good. connection to the dac chip. So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. By This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. MQA decoding I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. Powered by Invision Community. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. CH Precision C1 DAC. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. At $20,000 I recommend the MSB Premier DAC with two power supplies (KeithRs system). Thank you, Mike. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. They are excellent pairing. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. It may not display this or other websites correctly. digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, the FPGA handles digital processing only, not conversion from digital to analog. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. This puts it up against some serious competition! And differences at that level can be good. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. More sharing . The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. johndoe21ro The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own.
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